Skip to main content

The Ongoing Debate With Rain



Hi Rain . . .

When a person has descended from Irish and Highlander stock you can expect an argumentative result. From the get-go I've enjoyed your bright and sometimes stubborn prose. It's obvious that you are smarter than I am (durn it) - and also write better.  My only weapon is common sense and a pretty good idea of what is right and what is wrong.

Fly In Ointment Commander
Not long ago you replied to one of my regular epistles about the religion of Islam. I know I tend to speak with a forked tongue sometimes, but I usually keep my written stuff close to what I really believe. There is, however, a leprechaun living in my keyboard that now and then pushes the envelope. When my text is displayed on the screen I don't always realize that I've gone over the top. You know, a bit too far.

I rely on you and other bloggers to pull me back from the abyss. Your recent reply was precisely that, an attempt to get me to back off and smell the roses. It worked. The subject that caused your objection was, I think, my bald statement that "ALL MUSLIMS ARE OUR ENEMY".  You are right and I should tone this statement down. The word ALL has to be erased. Consider it done. My reasoning was not faulty but my emphasis was. There is no question in my mind that radical, fundamentalist Muslims have declared WAR upon Americans.  This enemy is small in numbers,  but nevertheless they are an able, vicious and dangerous enemy. They can not be ignored.

Your recent reply centered on Ground Zero and my attitude toward religious power. In answer to your specific questions:

1. You say that I said Christianity was incapable of being involved in an aggressively political movement. I did not (ever) say that.

2. You say that religion in ultimate power is a problem. I agree.

3. You ask does that mean the religion of Islam should be banned here? I suggest America should take a very close look at this question. Islam is an ideology more than a religion, and it is joined at the hip with the Islamic political movement and Sharia. It is perhaps more of a political-legal ideology than it is a religion at all. This ideology specifically seeks to overthrow and control our government and replace our laws with Sharia. If some other other movement or religious sect were to advocate the violent overthrow of our government we would consider them to be hostile and jail or deport them.  I am no longer sure that is an over reaction. 

4. You say that most Americans fear that Islam is a serious threat and may be able to take over America. I think that is  accurate. To not think so is dangerous to our country.

5. You say it is one thing to build a memorial to a catastrophic event and another to turn it into a holy shrine. I agree.

5. Your analogy of comparing highway deaths to the number of people killed (murdered) at the Twin Towers is not a particularly convincing one. The 3,000 deaths on 9/11 are more related to the World War II attack at Pearl Harbor. It seems to me that just because more people are killed auto accidents each month than are killed in Iraq, doesn't make the War in Iraq more or less important. And a fisherman that goes down when his boat fails off the Oregon coast is just as important as a person killed in the 9/11 tragedy. If the fisherman believed in religion, there is nor reason he people should not erect a Holy Shrine reflecting his faith. But after an attack like 9/11 where thousands of people were killed and they belonged to no specific religion, they should not be given a Holy Shrine but rather a non-sectarian, non-religious, non-partisan shrine where the victims family and friends might gather and mourn in their own private way, and our nation's can recognize the event forever.

6. You say that our tradition of freedom should be extended to an Islamic sponsored commemorative Islamic Center near ground zero. I, as you would expect, disagree. I look at Islam as an enemy and any new Islamic Center or Mosque as an abomination and insult to America. Notice that my statement encompasses ALL Islamic building anywhere in America. These people are a direct and active threat to our government and way of life. They have declared war upon us. Their Islamic Centers are planned and financed by the hostile centers of Islamic expansion. They want Americans to submit to Islam or die, and they still expect us to allow more centers of evil to be built all across America. Until the religion of Islam no longer threatens people, no longer has the public purpose of destroying America, and until Muslims accept the domination of their host country's laws over Sharia . . . Americans should treat Islam as an enemy and give them nothing.


Bump

Comments

Rain said…
Goodness... it's the plus in America that we are free to agree and disagree. I also would not want to live under Sharia law. *shuddering at the thought*. I want to see us encourage the right thinking Islamic groups (and they are not all the same) and stop cold those who feed suicide bombing rhetoric to their people.

You know some think all Christians are a danger, that if they get in power they will go back to the witch burnings and the Inquisition, that they are all like Randall Terry who encourages violence to get his way.

Do some research (not on the extreme right blogs but more his actual quotes, on what he's done, his history) on Imam Rauf. The right is trying to tar him as a radical for his not being willing to condemn all that Hamas does (some of what they do is charitable), and they go on but they ignore things like what he said in the memorial service for Daniel Pearl. It seems to me his goals (unless he's a total liar which is always possible with anybody) is to spread love and peace and it's what he said about this setting for a prayer and recreation center (not mosque) for the community not only of Muslims but others in the area. It may never come to pass as they don't have the money to build it either.

Anyway I don't for a moment think our problems with the radical element of Islam are behind us. I believe we have to be aware and prepared and fight back when required against those who do violence or teach it. It's not all Muslims.

And I don't think I am smarter than you nor do I have less common sense. Our life experiences are obviously different and we see the world through our own prisms but I know many righties and know that they have the best interests for our country in their hearts. I just disagree with what that is.

The real issues for righties is do they want to change the Constitution now to undo the freedom of religion part. It's what this is really all about as it's not just one mosque. It's a fear of the religion.
Bumps Stump said…
Thanks Rain . . . I was worried that you might boil me in oil. Bump
Rita said…
Good post Bump. What I find most discouraging about the argument of the radical Christians vs the radical Islam is that Christian leaders strongly condemn the actions of "christian" terrorists. I would be much more inclined to believe Islam is not our enemy if their leaders also strongly condemned the actions of the 9/11 terrorists without qualifying the actions as saying America was somewhat responsible.

I will never, never believe this Imam believes he is helping to heal the wounds caused by radical Islamics by building a 13 story mosque at a site that was destroyed by the terrorists.

There is no doubt in my mind that this is a victory "temple".

If they wanted to heal wounds they would move the mosque to a less "sacred" ground.

Popular posts from this blog

Intellectual / Incompetent / Liberal

We all know that there are serious problems with ou American political system. The federal government and national media have been telling us that we continue to lead the world in just about everything. Unfortunately, we do not. Measuring our status against other nations is difficult as it entails comparison of different attributes and characteristics. Comparisons are, at best, crude.  Surely, if we look, it's clear that America is no longer dominant among the world's communities. 


For decades following the 1929 economic depression, America has enriched foreign industries at the expense of our own. We have subsidized foreign military powers while allowing the depletion of our own. We've defended other nations borders while, at the same time, not defended our own. We've spent trillions of dollars to subsidize unworthy governments, and let our own infrastructure to fall into disrepair. 

The use of our economic power as a diplomatic tool may have been the correct thing to d…

Cruel and Thoughtless . . .

A disheartening situation has hit our family. A cousin, one that we don't know very well, has reached 93 years of age. Most of the Chapman family made it to the mid 80's, but Mary Lou Chapman has managed a few years more. And, she's not gone yet. Mary was unmarried her entire life. She grew up in a good home, was well educated, has always hd a good job, and has enjoyed pretty good health - until just a few years ago. While she is still very much alive, I sometimes speak in the past tense as if she had already died. Mary is either confused or in her own little world now. She began losing some of her sparkle a few years ago. At first it was mild memory loss, and then mild hearing loss, and then drifting in her speech as she lost track of what she wanted to say. Her Doctor said it was a mild dementia coming on with old age, and nothing to worry about yet. A few month's passed by before she began to have problems driving herself to the market and appointments and so forth,…

Mark Turner - Another Look

MARK TURNER.  I'm an interested ex-corporate exec., now retired, and have little to contribute to this. Perhaps you can help? At first I thought Mark's story was so complicated it couldn't be true. I discovered later that  Mark's business may indeed have  generated as much money as he said it did. His story is long and complicated, but regardless of his guilt or innocence, there is definitely  something wrong with the legal process he encountered. Maggie Thornton says his business dealings were honest. I'm not thoroughly convinced, but she may be right.  There is no question that he was improperly sentenced in one court, and deserves an appeal process in another. 


I have received several comments from a blogger named "Anonymous". He (or she) has chosen to remain unknown but clearly has an inside track to information about Mark's problems. I have removed my original speculations from this blog and regret there were so many errors. Sorry folks, my fault…